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Ease and Autocad DXF Compatibillity
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:31 pm Reply with quote
opacheco
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Posts: 61




Hi,

I would like to know what are rules for Ease import DXF
drawings???.....I use Autocad for the model only because autocad is a powerful soft than Ease but I am having serious problems when I try to impot them to Ease. I use Export DXF and Import DXF from Ease in order to add and cut walls and install panels for acoustics corrections but in this process the drawings don't represent the autocad or ease(both ways!!) models.....

I read the docs for import but I don't have corrects result.

What could I are doing in a incorrect way??

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Opacheco.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:11 pm Reply with quote
mrovira
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Hi,

I usually create models using solids of autocad and then:
- Export to 3DS in Autocad (depending on version of Autocad you'll need to install this command)
- Import from 3DS in AutoCAD (this silly operation converts all your solids in 3d faces)
- Save as DXF in Autocad.
- Import the DXF file in EASE (Collect scattered faces option active).

I think this is detailed somewhere in the tutorial.

Hope this helps.
Luck!

Marc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:28 pm Reply with quote
opacheco
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[quote="mrovira"]Hi,

I usually create models using solids of autocad and then:
- Export to 3DS in Autocad (depending on version of Autocad you'll need to install this command)
- Import from 3DS in AutoCAD (this silly operation converts all your solids in 3d faces)
- Save as DXF in Autocad.
- Import the DXF file in EASE (Collect scattered faces option active).

I think this is detailed somewhere in the tutorial.

Hope this helps.
Luck!

Marc.[/quote]

Marc, I appreciate your comments!!!....and I do most like you do!!....But now, I donīt use to 3DS because.

The problems is that I had make the drawing few month ago but I need to change some details and I lost the materials in the Export/Import from Ease to Autocad and Import/Export from Autocad to Ease again!!!......

Someone know what can I do for donīt have this inconvenience???

Thanks a lot,
Opacheco.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:17 am Reply with quote
Waldemar
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Hi Opacheco,

which version of EASE do you use?
We recommend to use the latest 4.3.8
and DXF 2000.
If you export an EASE project to DXF,
then all materials will be converted to separate layers.
If you re-import that drawing the materials will be
restored correctly.
When do you lose the materials?

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Importing Box from AutoCAD to EASE 4.3.8
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:08 pm Reply with quote
kvenkat3
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Hi All,

I've been attempting to import just a basic box from AutoCAD 14 to EASE 4.3.8. (using the box command in AutoCAD)

According to this forum link, the 3DS import export functionality is no longer offered in AutoCAD. As per recommendation of said link, I have attempted to use the command fbxexport and fbximport.

Link I am referring to:
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-2013-2014-2015/how-to-export-3ds-from-autocad-2014/td-p/4982008


After using fbximport to import the .fbx version of my box file, I find that my box has extra lines added to it.

After running the xedges (Extract edges) command on my imported file, and I then saved it as a .DXF 2000 and imported that file to EASE.

Upon import, I find that I only get edges but no planes (ie. the 6 faces to a box are recognized by EASE import).

What am I doing wrong? OR better yet, do you know how exactly import a 3d diagram into EASE while keeping the 2D planes (like the 6 sides of a box) intact?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:58 pm Reply with quote
Tim
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Location: Canberra ACT, Australia




kvenkat3,

When importing AutoCAD drawings into EASE, it's best to bring in DXF files.
If you're using AutoCAD, I find it best to save the drawing as a DXF drawing in ACAD2000 format - this seems to work the best for me, even though EASE 4.4 can import more recent files.
If you're not using AutoCAD, use software like anydwg.com to convert your drawing file from any DWG to DXF version.

Closed Polylines and Polyfaces drawn in AutoCAD convert to faces in EASE. Polylines which are not closed or single lines will be converted to Edges in EASE. Make sure you explode any blocks, 3D Mesh, solids etc... and turn off unnecessary information.

Using the EASE IMEX module, there is a check box 'Close Multiple Lines to Faces' and also 'Collect Scattered Faces'. Play around with these and see if this helps you import the DXF file.

Hope this helps. Let us know!

Regards Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:02 pm Reply with quote
kvenkat3
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Hi Tim,

Ok, I have been saving my files as AutoCad2000/LT2000 DXF.

So this is what has worked so far:

I created a box using the 'box' command.
Then used the 'xplode' command on the box.
Then I performed the 'xedges' command on the faces. (running just 'xplode' was not importing anything in AutoCAD).

In EASE IMEX, I used "Close Multiple Lines" and I managed to finally get working faces for each plane of the imported box. However, some of the faces were inverted (facing outwards, as opposed to inside the box). Is there anyway I can avoid having to manually invert these faces? If not, its really not that big of a deal.


And does this process for Importing AutoCAD to EASE sound consistent with yours? In the future, should I run "xedges" first, before running "xplode"?

And thank you very much for your help!

Keshav
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:43 pm Reply with quote
Tim
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Location: Canberra ACT, Australia




Keshav,

A few comments on AutoCAD.
Using the BOX commands creates a '3D Solid'.
XPLODE-ing this creates 'Regions'. EASE can not import either of these AutoCAD entities. You'll need to also XPLODE the regions to create individual lines.

FWIW, when I'm creating a project in AutoCAD for exporting to EASE, I will only draw with Polylines - PLINE or PL in command prompt. Yes, this is a 2D drawing method. Then use the UCS tools to create the other faces in the 3 dimensions. Polylines will import as Faces in EASE.

Regarding inverted faces - drawing Polylines in AutoCAD in a clock-wise direction facing into a room will provide the correct orientation when imported in EASE.

The simplest way to correct face orientation is in the EASE project file, select/pick a face which is correctly facing into the room, then choose Tools>Check Holes. Untick all the boxes except Auto-Orientation then run 'Close Holes' This should change all the faces to the correct orientation.

Hope this helps Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:37 am Reply with quote
Tim
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Location: Canberra ACT, Australia




Keshav,

I've been thinking a little further...
If you've drawn your model using 3D Solids in AutoCAD, there is another method which may work for you - without exploding all the entities. This would be most useful if you have a more complex model with 3D Solids.

EASE can also import SketchUp files (.SKP). SketchUp is a 3D documentation software and a basic version is available free. Download at:
http://www.sketchup.com/download

Process to convert to an EASE project file:
Save your AutoCAD project file as DWG.
Open SketchUp... then the first thing you should do is delete the little lady 'block' at the centre of the UCS icon.
Use SketchUp to open the project using File>Import and select your DWG file.
You should see the drawing entitis in Sketchup. Find the Zoom Edtents icon in the tool bar.
Using File>Sale As, save the project as a SketchUp V7 file (as EASE can't import the latest SKP version)
Now use the EASE IMEX Module to import the SKP file. If you've used layers in AutoCAD, these will also have been converted via SketchUp and you can select the appropriate materials from your Materials database.
Save as an EASE FRD project file.

I've just done a quick model with some tricky 3D shapes using this method and it works for me. I expect this process could be useful with complex models from AutoCAD too.

I look forward to hearing how you go. Please let us know!
Regards

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:29 pm Reply with quote
kvenkat3
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Tim,

Wow thank you for the two posts!

I have worked with Sketchup before actually and your suggestion of it brings up a question that may seem silly:

Is AutoCAD typically used to create models to be imported into EASE? If not, do users typically use Sketchup? And what did they use before Sketchup? (Did/do they use the EASE modeling capabilities?)


Also, using closed polylines worked beautifully. Thank you for the incredibly insightful tip.

Sincerely,

Keshav
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:01 pm Reply with quote
Tim
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Location: Canberra ACT, Australia




Keshav,

I can really only reply with my experiences and what I have discussed with others.
Documentation in AutoCAD or SketchUp is a personal (or perhaps a financial) preference. AutoCAD has been around for many years and is pretty much the default documentation software for building designers + consultants. SketchUp is more recent software which offers 3D modelling - something that AutoCAD is not really good at - hence the push to Revit - which IMHO is a terribly clumsy program.
My background prior to acoustic consulting is architecture, so for me AutoCAD is a very comfortable platform to work within - although I do find the newer versions frustrating.

I have seen many architects moving to SketchUp (Pro) to simply document their projects in 3D as a presentation tool. I can see the future development of SketchUp will include better architectural documentation for built works. SketchUp can support some very detailed documentation.

FWIW, AutoCAD 2015 is $US4000.00, SketchUp Make is free. SketchUp Pro is $US590.00

Regards

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:06 pm Reply with quote
AFMG Pedro Lima
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Gents, here is a bit of my personal Experience, in a few hints.

1. Firstly, EASE users NEED to have a very good understanding of EASE modelling capabilities. Independently on which CAD software you are using, you have to understand what EASE expects from you (closed room - if applicable, no holes, Two-Fold Faces conventions, etc.). Other than that, you will ALWAYS need to fix/change something from EASE.

2. The software used really varies with the user experience. Some people work with CAD for years in their office (with several other colleagues and partners). Some with Revit, others with SketchUp. So, for some people bringing a room up with AutoCAD can be really fast if they know EASE rules and how the different items are related between the software programs (for instance, the closed Polyline means a Face in EASE as well as a 3D Face, but not a region or a mesh! Layer names mean Materials names in EASE, etc.). So, understanding these relationships is crucial.

3. So, if you are starting modelling now: yes, go ahead and learn EASE capabilities anyway. If you know how to draw in EASE (successfully), you will know how to draw in other suites so that your model is quite ready whenever bringing it to EASE. But, in addition to that, SketchUp is probably a good starting point as it is quite fast to learn the fundamentals. I have limited experience with Revit, but some users claim it is devastating fast to build up models there too. But ,as I understand it, the learning curve is also steeper.

4. In the past (until AutoCAD 2008, I guess), there used to be a function to export the drawing to 3DS Max (3DS out). When you imported the drawing back, it would practically be ready to EASE, as it would come back including basically 3D Faces. Unfortunately the feature has been discontinued in favour of other exchange formats I believe.

5. Another thing you can do, is exporting only the lines to EASE (selecting, import only structure in the Import dialog). And the draw the faces based on it. This might be useful after exploding some regions or meshes on DXF files.

6. Read: Auralization: Fundamentals of Acoustics, Modelling, Simulation, Algorithms and Acoustic Virtual Reality (RWTHedition). There you can find a bit more details on the differences between Acoustical and Architectural models (and more...). CAD files got from architects will 99% of the times have to be cleaned up so that you can get a good acoustical model.

7. Some correlations beween EASE and SketchUp: in SKP you can define Two Fold Faces (coated and not coated), holes, pillars, materials, all with direct correlation to EASE. So your windows are ready whenever inside EASE. For instance ---- Create a Face by drawing inside another Face: this new Face will be coated over the "mother" Face automatically. ----- Assign materials to the Face by putting the name of the layer as: frontMaterialName $ backMaterialName - this Face will be also Two-Fold (representing, for instance, a window). ------ Create a pillar (a whole will be opened in SketchUp). In EASE this pillars will be draw correctly. ------ Create a (cloud) panel and assign materials mentioned above to create a two-fold face in EASE that is not coated over any Face. --------- You can either assign a color to the face Material or the Layer where it is inserted. The material will be checked first by EASE, even if there is a color also for the layer...

Hope that helps... I reality, there is a lot of info about the topic, and a lot of experience from different EASE users.
In the EASE trainings a number of them are covered. Hope you gentlemen have the opportunity to attend to one of them...

Best Regards,
Pedro Lima
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You MUST know EASE CAD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Jim Mobley
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Location: Foothill Ranch, California, USA




Let me reiterate what Ricardo has stated, you must, must, learn how to create EASE models in EASE before you attempt to import from any other program. I will guarantee that the time wasted in attempting to import .dxf files without a firm understanding of EASE's CAD module is orders of magnitude more than the time it will take to learn EASE's CAD module. I've used EASE for 19 years and I taught it for 13, this is not hyperbole, every hour you spend getting good at modeling using EASE's built-in tools will pay back dividends of at least 10 to 1.

If you want to speed up the process, take an EASE class. Those of us who teach and have taught EASE know many, many time saving tricks that we show you during the course of the class. If you take an EASE class, practice a bit and don’t let your newly learned skills atrophy due to disuse, you will be able to build the vast majority of EASE models in an hour or less, using the tools in EASE. The other upside of this is that you will generally avoid the pitfall of modeling with too much detail if you stick to EASE. EASE calculations are not only faster when the detail is kept appropriately low, but they are also more accurate. Simpler models are faster to build, faster to calculate and give more accurate results; win-win-win.

Having said all that, I will now tell you that I typically model using a version of AutoCAD for the initial drawing and then import a .dxf file into EASE. But, I do this with a complete knowledge of how EASE's CAD module works, what it expects, and what I can do faster in AutoCAD and what I can do faster--or must due--in EASE. This is the "correct" way to use the .dxf/Sketchup import function, do in other software that which is faster, then finish in EASE, as you must.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Tim
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Location: Canberra ACT, Australia




I'll strongly agree here with Jim's comments.

For simple and straight-forward projects, I'll use EASE.
With larger, more complex projects, I'll document outside EASE.
I have had some projects with difficult room shapes where I used AutoCAD, SketchUp and EASE - at times exporting and importing various elements between the different software packages - to complete the model.
I will use whatever tools it takes to generate the model as quickly as possible.

Regards

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:40 am Reply with quote
Jim Mobley
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Of course I meant to say that I agree with Pedro. Ricardo may have said similar things about EASE, but not in this thread.

Sorry Pedro.

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Best regards,

Jim Mobley
Sr. Application Engineer
Renkus-Heinz, Inc.
19201 Cook St.
Foothill Ranch, CA 92610 USA
TEL: +1-949-588-9997
FAX: +1-949-588-9514
www.renkus-heinz.com
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